Rombach takes on Jumbo opposers
December 16, 2009 by Mary Ann Rombach
Filed under Business, Environment, Letters, Local democracy, Recreation
Jumbo faultline.
It’s been a challenge to address all the Jumbo issues that came up in my absence over the last month. I belatedly respond.
Meredith and like-minded thinkers: No need to get angry over JCAB’s name. JCAB is what its mission statement reads: a group of locals on a mission to support an environmentally sound JGR — so all people can access powder and a glacier resort. I personally invite you to read JCAB’s beliefs, and help build a sustainable economy in this region based on environmental respect. I would appreciate substantive feedback about JCAB’s core beliefs.
Arnor and like-minded thinkers: No need to worry about an empty toilet that blew over in the wind on Farnham glacier, nor to worry about propane tanks that are up to specs. Your vehicle emitted more CO2 than the empty toilet. I invite you to start looking at the most polluting source of carbon emissions that has rolled under your nose for the past 30 years. Every day 19 trains roll by your town, some 200 cars in each train, filled to the brim with coal, headed for the world’s furnaces. If you really want to help humanity and the environment, do something constructive about this without killing the economy of Fernie/Sparwood/Elko. Help humanity switch to alternative energy.
Delphi Study Author: Your participants constitute the whole of JGR opposition, yet your website claims you promote democracy. How about doing another Delphi study and use now only JCABers and other JGR supporters as your ‘expert panel.’ In the end you shall have a democratic study.
Alpine Club of Canada: Your official opposition to JGR does not reflect your membership, culture or history of its core members. Hans Gmoser, who you honored at the Guide’s Ball in 2008, said: “the challenge that faces us today is to find the means to let the greatest number of people enjoy these beautiful lands with the least amount of damage to these lands, but the extravagance of drawing boundaries and declaring vast tracts of wilderness off limits, except for a few self chosen, we can no longer afford.” (p. 275, Deep Powder and Steep Rock).
I challenge ACC Delphi participants to provide the ethical justification of denying the Invermere area the best opportunity in its history to become an economically sustainable community. We have 3,200 inhabitants struggling here year round. This economy is ‘on the edge’.
Boycott Rumors: There have been rumors that Wildsighters and JCCS’ers have been boycotting local businesses which support JGR. I invite JGR opposition to deny or confirm these rumors. If confirmed that they are true, I invite the opposition to (1.) Make public the businesses you are boycotting, and (2.) ethically justify boycotting the small businesses in this town who are surviving both a marginal economy, and a recession.
Mary Ann Rombach
ACC Member
There is not too many Columbia Valley residents struggling! My 13 year old son brings home $15/hr working part time at a local fast food joint. There is more decent paying jobs here than I have seen anywhere. The area that these people choose to ski on the glacier is the most accesible/safest area of the glacier for skiing. Therefor the few residents who actually are struggling can no longer ski the glacier for free because its blocked off so these prestige athletes can use it. It does not make sense to me. Shame on those responsible for this project. This area should be left as is. Let the locals use it as they have for the past 100 years!
Invermere Mom, Your comments are typical of opponents; “I’m okay Jack – pull up the ladder”. What would you say to the hundreds in Radium mill out of work? Some may not want Jumbo but they want work – what do you propose?
It is because there are so few families left and therefore few working age children that your son might earn $15/hr (supply and demand). I wish we could flash forward 10 years and see where he is living or working? Fort Mac?
As someone who survived in the Valley working in Forestry and in tourism I was forced to move away due to the boom and bust of forestry and Panorama is a regional ski hill that can barely employ people for 4 months a year.
Without Jumbo resort Panorama may fail – it would have failed without Intrawest’s millions – even after Intawest’s millions it still could not be sold?! What opponents refuse to acknowledge is a strong economy supports a healthy environment.
It is obvious that there needs to be economic diversification – if you ever wake up to this – let us know what, if not Jumbo, would be your ideas to build a healthy environment and economy?
Jumbo is a way to create more and more jobs with a fixed amount of natural resources. The epitomy of environmental sustainability.
Grizzlies prefer Gondolas!
Well Invy Mom, if your son is making such massive $$ at his restaurant job, I guess he’ll have no trouble being able to afford a season’s pass at one of the finest ski resorts in the world!! Congratulations…he too can be as fancy as the ‘prestige athletes’ you derogatorily speak of above. Keep in mind that every ski pass comes with a tuxedo, top hat, cigar, martini and pig nose just so they can look exactly as folks like you, the council of Canadians’ and all others that are painfully envious of successful people imagine the classy, rich people look and act like. And hey just remember if all folks can’t be as lucky as your son and land jobs that can hurdle them into the ranks of the rich and fabulous, perhaps they can stop smoking…skiing at JGR will cost less than that super keen habit!
As you have pointed out in your post this Valley does have a lot to offer; useful employment as well as an opportunity to balance it off with some of the best outdoor recreation imaginable…JGR will facilitate continued prosperity and sustainability…why folks like you keep touting this as a negative is a complete mystery to me??
Sorry Invermere Mom, but no locals used these glaciers or ski runs 100 years ago. There were no logging and mining roads for the ATV’s, 4 wheel drive mega trucks and snow mobiles to run up there. A few horse guides and some elite climbers but nobody else were using the area. There was no body living in this area that had any inklinging of doing that as they were trying to make a living and survive. Simply survive.
Struggling at $ 15 an hour for part itme work by a 13 year old ?????
Minimum wage is about $ 8 per hour and a part time kid gets $ 15 and some folks are struggling, They ( struggling ) might want to get a fulll time job then.
Try having every one in the Valley refer to this area as Welfare Valley as it was in the eighties when nobody had a job, our 18 year old kids were leaving to find work and people did not have jobs and were losing their homes due to no work = no jobs = no money = no food = no homes= no hope. That is struggling. This reality is not acceptable in the Valley again although some would have us throw out the potential for hundreds of jobs here in our areas.
As to the proponent not allowing access to Farnham ? With the help of Canfor who opened the road up so well, CODA that lead the way to the ski hill, and JGR helping and committing to Olympic skiers and local kids, can now train and ski at a soon to be world class location.
Think please about the logic and history of this valley. Think
Excellent quote Mary-Ann:
“the challenge that faces us today is to find the means to let the greatest number of people enjoy these beautiful lands with the least amount of damage to these lands, but the extravagance of drawing boundaries and declaring vast tracts of wilderness off limits, except for a few self chosen, we can no longer afford.” Hans GMOSER (p. 275, Deep Powder and Steep Rock).
Exactly.
Mary Ann,
As an Alpine Club of Canada member, I disagree with your comment that the club’s official opposition does not reflect the history of it’s core members.
Elizabeth Parker, one of the founding members, of the ACC wrote the following in the 1907 edition of the Canadian Alpine Journal: “The mountains themselves hold the high effort of achievement in fee. The vulgar reach the mountain summits by a way which the Alpine Club of Canada will set a face of flint. We know what way that is: the way of the monster, Mammon. By virtue of it’s constitution, the Alpine Club is a national trust for the defence of our mountain solitudes against intrusions of steam and electricity and all the vandalisms of this luxurious, utilitarian age; for the keeping free from the grind of commerce, the wooded passes and valleys and alplands of the wilderness. It is the people’s right to have primitive access to the remote places of safest retreat from the fever and fret of the market place and the beaten tracts of life.” ( The Alpine Cub of Canada, Canadian Alpine Journal, Vol 1, No. 1)
I would argue that the ACC is obligated to oppose such projects as Jumbo and as a member I fully support such opposition.
You ignore the point Hams GMOSER was making…if not, it is the wild places you claim to defend that will pay the price. It is a strong economy that allows us to defend the environment. BC’s interior economy is in tatters.
16% of the East Kootenays is already set aside in parks. Jumbo is already roaded up, clear cutted and mined. It has nearby the necessary infrastructure to allow it to assist existing resorts and communities to sustain themselves.
It is incredible that you argue that you must have all the high areas…you have 16% in parks and another 50% untouched out of parks.
In order to sustain and build a strong industry for rural BC the Jumbo proposal wishes only .0001% of the high mountains.
Read Hams again…it is your blind opposition that endangers the wilderness.
To ACC’er comments, you must realize that Elizabeth Parker’s statment in 1907 was so self serving as to be frightening also so out of date for today’s values as to be shown to be very self serving.
As letifly stated, just because you have the luxury of playing in 2 Million acres of land as your personal playground does not mean that the vast majority should be excluded from that self same millions of acres.
The foot print of this proposed and soon to be approved location is so small compared to the area available for the physically elite is mind boggling. This area relative to over 2 million acres in the overall Kootenay’s available for people to recreat is minor in the extreme.
Why is the concept of ” Not In My Back Yard ” and ” I’ve Got It So You Cannot ” so prevelant in many of the supposed arguments against Jumbo?? I wonder.
Can it be greed on the part of the negative groups? What greed could she / he be talking about ? ? !! Wildsite and JCCGGG’s are lily white and pure protectionist environmentalist save the world folks. Greed?? !! Never !
Go back to the previous paragraph – NIMBY and IGISOC. It’s Mine only so I’m going to fight for ever to keep it forever. It does not matter that the rest of the valley wants to have jobs and homes and food. I want my wilderness for me only. It’s MINE !@ Damit
Can it be that they are so ingrained in their angst, that they have lost track of the greatest good for the most people ? I wonder.
I must agree with Invermere mom on a few points, My children and all their friends make very decent money for their age’s. There is alot of work around here, seriously alot compared to most areas I have lived. Almost any business will start a non skilled person at $16 or more in and around Invermere. It has been this way for the 4 years I have lived here. I am all for the Ski Resort. If they build Jumbo I will take my kids there. My husband skis Jumbo a few times a year but I dont have the energy to do all the hiking involved. The athletes use the most accessible area of farnham glacier for their training, so the normal people must take the long routes. Im fine with that. What I dont understand is where are they going to find workers? The kids aroud this area have it pretty easy with so many constant job offers. I hope Jumbo works out but I have a bad feeling that it simply wont be economically possible. She was also right about people using the glaciers 100 years ago, there is several pictures in the local museum of people sking in this area, dated back in the early 1900’s. There’s lots of untouched land left out there. Im sure badgers will survive somewhere else in BC. I understand that this area is already quite overr un by tourists anyway so I dont see the big deal. I am for Jumbo Resort!
That is a bit ridiculas Stan, Im not a smoker and neither is my son so I am not sure why you are trying to use smoking as a metaphor. Its very off topic and some what childish. I now can understand why the vast majority is against this resort. Its not so much about the resort its self, its more about not allowing people like you to get their way. For the better of planet earth.
WOW Invy Mom, you have managed to miss the WHOLE point completely. the metaphor of smoking was not to accuse you or your family of being smokers. You make the point in your earlier post and it is painfully echoed over and over and over again that us regular poor, down trodden workin’ folks will never be able to afford to ski at JGR and that it will only be there to service “prestige athletes,” (your words, not mine). The comparison to smoking is this; why is a season’s pass at JGR considered to be so out of reach for the regular Joe/Jane and therefor used as a crappy argument for anti-Jumbo supporters, when it actually costs more per year to smoke. Lets back up and change the metaphor, does your son play hockey? At about 13 years of age and up hockey will cost more than skiing as well…should we band together and try to stop hockey because it is only for “prestige athletes?”
Your comments of a better planet earth; although very touching and inspirational, are also way off the mark. If you take the time to read the master plan and the commitments to the environment through JGR’s environmental certification, you will see that the ‘environmental’ angle is really only an emotional tool utilized by anti-JGR supporters because it is an easy targeted message and resonates loudly with people who are quick to follow trends, think they are doing something good and really have not taken the time to fully research the project.
I can see from your comments above that you really do not have any solid, well thought out, fact-based arguments to back your opposition to JGR and now have just resorted to the primal us against them, win at all cost mentality… very childish invy Mom, very childish indeed!
Common Stan. The last paragraph is totally out of line to have in any discussion. Whether the talk is about Jumbo or Banff.
Poor tactics to show such poor language to anyone at any time
Despite what the proponents of JGR say about all of the issues being addressed in the Master plan the same problems keep showing up. KHR is Golden is negatively affecting the town and surrounding area and the town is trying to deal with those effects as we speak;
~ from here; http://www.town.golden.bc.ca/upload/nwd213.pdf
1.2 In Transition
After the Town’s designation as a Resort Municipality and the privatization of Kicking Horse Mountain Resort, Golden and surrounding areas have been experiencing significant increases in housing prices. The increases can be partly attributed to an increased market demand for recreational and secondary homes by seasonal property owners and investors. The increase in housing costs has led to issues surrounding housing availability and quality for the low to modest income households. The trends are suspected to be adversely affecting Kicking Horse Country as a whole……
~Corporations try as much as possible to “Socialize the costs and Privatize the profits” so they avoid long term employee housing and all the social problems associated with it. (Party town, exploitation, etc.) Talk with people from Fernie, Golden, Revelstoke and Whistler about this and differentiate between construction and seasonal workers. Read the comments at the end of the BC business Article “Black Diamonds of Revelstoke” here; http://www.bcbusinessonline.ca/bcb/top-stories/2008/08/01/black-diamonds-revelstoke
The provincial government wants to promote the “Skier Culture” in the Valley and Interior with it’s Doubling in Tourism policy. So you had better understand all of the implications of that. Housing issues plague every one of these “developments” Stories from Whistler where people were living ten to a crawl space and paying one hundred dollars for the pleasure, Hot bedding where a person pays four hundred for eight hours in a bunk bed shared by two others (3×8=24hrs) . A person renting a house for fifteen hundred a month and then moving 15 people in to pay a hundred each. Houses with 25 people in them, how hygenic is that and what does it do to the standard of living around them. Whistler is hoping after all it’s years in operation to finally catch up in the next couple of years after having the Whistler housing authority for many years. Resorts are dependent on Foreign workers and they don’t get paid a lot. A doctor in Pique magazine was saying that since they only get around $9 / hour they were skipping X-rays when injured because they really could afford them.
In the website “real estate talks” they discussed how quick the Partiers get old, Starting a chainsaw at 04:00am to cut down a tree to increase a “rad view”; People trying to Ski off the roof of houses, etc. Supporters continuously say the Master development covers all the issues but it doesn’t and these “PROMISES” can easily be avoided saying that they can’t afford to do it. Revelstoke mountain resort was supposed to build their own sewer system and the city was cautioned to never become involved with that because of “the huge costs involved”; The sewer system was designed and put in the Master development agreement, plans were drawn up but IT NEVER HAPPENED. The city under then Mayor McKee provided a sewer line up to the ski hill but as the cities infrastructure can’t handle the complete load the septic is still being composted until additional expensive work is done to it.
The resort guidelines say that (seasonal as opposed to temporary construction) Employee housing should be provided as soon as possible and as close to the resort as possible but in Revelstoke’s case the Provincial government exempted them from doing this until the second stage of development and the Ski hill has publicly stated it would like to never provide Employee housing if at all possible. So despite all the “promises” and “defer to authority” arguments that the JGR supporters use, every person needs to do their own research and FULLY under4stand the full issues involved ~Endangered.
Sorry Endangered but every thing you use to justify continued complaining about something that has been already thought through is very very weak
Most of your comments are areas that would be covered by local and municiple governance and whether or not that by laws was enforced. It would not be the proponents responsibility to enforce such concerns.
From another perspective, if there is such a high demand for housing, then there is an economic opportunity for you to go into Golden, Revelstoke, Kimberely, Invermere, Jumbo, Kicking Horse Whister, and develop social housing and the authority to handle people that mis behave while partying.
Sorry, but that line you carried above is so weak.
David R Pacey
Social Housing just like the Olympic Village? I’ll pass on that “economic Opportunity” Or do you refer to Affordable Housing which critics more accurately call “worker housing”. Neither do anything for the low to modest incomes of SERVICE INDUSTRY workers that Tourism is dependent on, or for Child (family) and Seniors poverty. ~Endangered.
Sorry Endangered but in this valley the tourist industry as it relates to the ski industry is far far from Low to Modest incomes to which you refer.
Maybe you are talking about entry level positions ? Maybe you are talking about those that have no training ?
But those that have training, those that have skills, those that have taken the time to educate and train them selves, do very well thank you very much.
But then, you might be talking about the ” Youth Exchange ” group that are temps that migrate from Zealand and Auzi to Canada and back again. An absolutely great way to travel, A great way to develop skills and a great way to view other contries and culture.
I guess what I am saying, is that all the renumeration is in the dollars but the experiences and the joy of learning new things and experiencing new opportunities and cultures.
This discussion, as you digress, has absolutely nothing to do with the Good, the Bad or the Ugly of other topics but rather that of what is good bad or ugly of a vibrant, ” green ” resort that at build out would inject millions into the local economy, provide employment and opportunities to generations of young, keep the young employed and excited here in the Columbia’s AND provide an experience in both summer and winter to thousands that would not otherwise have had the opportunity to experience something as wonderful as Jumbo.
Am I a supporter, YOU BET.!!!
David R Pacey
Radium Hot Springs
JGR master development agreement makes no mention of the Foreign workers or the exchange program to which you refer; Why is that? You fail also to mention that employment at JGR after five years is only projected for 150 days in the winter and 60 days in the summer for a total of seven months per year. Now I really don’t expect that JGR is expected to be a Charity for these or any other worker either. So since they will not be entitled to Unemployment insurance or any other social benefits what are the supposed to live on and or pay their rents from? Landlords in both Golden and Revelstoke are now specifically state in rental ads NO SEASONAL or short term renters. Since these worker are mainly here for the “Experience and Joy ” they really don’t want to work the peak skiing hours either so local employers are also inconvenienced by this worker trait.
So despite your claim that resort workers are well paid the effect of only working 7 of 12 months greatly reduces the yearly wage to actually around 60% of a stated hourly wage i.e. 9/hr=6 18/hr =12. A lot will not even be employed for a full five month period at a time.
Another characteristic of the expected JGR resort worker ” It is likely that the workforce for both the ski lift operations and the resort will be primarily young
and largely single, except for management, maintenance and marketing personnel.. pg 6-54 (472)” ~That sounds like it leaves out a LOT of people doesn’t it.~
I also liked how the JGR master plan states that a way to combat poverty in the region is to provide free shuttle service to and between the resorts. This is typical SUPPLY SIDE ECONOMICS which always increases poverty and deficits. It can also be described as “Socialism for the Rich and Capitalism for the Poor” ~Endangered.
Endangered,
You never make any sense….rant on brother (or sister), rant on….
Endangered
You don’t seem to understand basic job ethics and actions in the tourist industry both here in the Valleys and throughout BC as a whole.
.
It is really very simple. When there is no work at resort number 1, then those that want to stay in the area go to the other seasonal resort number 2 and work there or, have a second job, or collect pogey or what ever.
Humans are very versatile and resourceful. We do what is necessary to survive in life. That is a very basic instinct.
And you are right, why should any one industry or resort or area accept the concept of charity to keep seasonal folks just to say they did or could or would. There is no profit in that concept. OOPs, a swear word there – profit.
Without profit, there is no school, there is no road, there is no grocery store. There are no taxes to provide the basic services to which we have become accustomed. Profit really is an angle word.
Nobody is going to slam the exchange program for the under 26 year olds that are currently seeing the world and experiencing different cultures and work ethics. It is an absolutely great way for that demographic to work,, gain life and work experience,, see the world experience,, different cultures and learn. learn learn. Always learn.
Like it or not, high school is just the start. We learn about finances after school. We learn a trade. We learn to run a business. We learn about other cultures. We learn and understand. We expand our context. We expand our paradigm.
That is one of the unsung benefits of having a Jumbo in our back yard, we too get to be exposed to other members of other cultures and we in turn learn about their cultures / morals / and values. If we so choose.
There’s a difference between “Profit seeking” (mutually beneficial to Society) and seeking “Economic rent” (which is mainly one sided).
~From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In economics, rent seeking occurs when an individual, organization or firm seeks to earn income by capturing economic rent through manipulation or exploitation of the economic environment, rather than by earning profits through economic transactions and the production of added wealth…….
……such as by gaining control of land and other pre-existing natural resources, …… ……While there may be few people in modern industrialized countries who do not gain something, directly or indirectly, through some form or another of rent seeking, rent seeking in the aggregate can impose substantial losses on society…. ….Other rent seeking is held to be associated with efforts to cause a redistribution of wealth by, for example, shifting the government tax burden or government spending allocation.~
~ Here’s the link; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_seeking
I encourage people to become informed about economics and form their own opinions. I’ve heard and read many stories about people being exploited as other seek greater “PROFIT” The poor foreign worker forced to pay 60% of her wages for housing or her friend that had to pay fifteen hundred a month for a ROOM (Black Diamonds of Revelstoke; comments section -BC Business online). Pretty hard to get by at the temporary and term McSki hill jobs being offered. Also again; Foreign workers don’t qualify for Poogey or welfare.
The Latin American employees being paid five dollars per hour on the Canada Line and constantly being told they were worth no more; another proud BC moment on the world stage. Why is foreign workers so important and allowed? Because they fulfil jobs that can’t be done by Canadians often because the wages are too low and you can’t make a living at it. ~Endangered.
Endangered,
These are excellent points you make regarding economics and the ‘good’ and ‘bad’ forms of profit. I too would encourage people to become informed about economics and more specifically how they apply to the JGR debate. While becoming informed drop the hype regarding the anti-Jumbo emotional-only argument and see that what JGR is proposing is a well balanced plan that seeks first and foremost to satisfy the 4 points of societal benefit; economic, social, spiritual and environmental.
The examples that you continue to bring to the argument regarding Golden and Revelstoke represent the worst scenarios, not at all the norm. The articles you quote from the Tyee and Pique are written by folks like you that are trying to back their point of how terrible these places are and thats all. They make good points but the arguments are grossly one sided and again represent the ‘ugly’ truth only, not the “truth” of how life is. If Revelstoke is such a horrible place to live and the resort such a bad place to work, why are we loosing our young, vibrant work force to them? One does not have to ski Revi long before a familiar face pops up. “how’s things here?” “well, I don’t make a lot…but hey…” (the answer is clear with one point of the finger towards the summit of one of the greatest ski areas on the continent). These are the kids that have life figured out!! There’ll be time to chase success and financial glory that you seem to value so highly when they have bagged enough memories to last a life time in their awful existence at what you so rudely refer to as the “McSki Hill.”
Endangered, life is SOOOO much more than a pay cheque! But I guess that’s all you have pared it down to?? Yip, rent is high for those that don’t latch on early to the great deals that can be found by being properly informed and prepared. Yip, living conditions will be cramped and privacy will be at an absolute minimum. Yip, it’ll be tough to make ends meet for a lot of these workers…BUT I promise you one thing that I know for sure; every single worker that values the experiences of life would never trade one moment of their time spent at the ol’ “McSki Hill!” Unless, of course they are only seeking to live in an area that has absolutely nothing to offer except a well paying job, but if that’s all they’re after (which seems to be important to Endangered and others) would they NOT be only seeking “economic rent?” I’d say so…..
Nice to see proponents finally admitting to the McJobs at ski hills instead of hiding the reality under the term “full time equivalent” projections that we see in the Master Development agreements. People have tried to infer that this would help laid off sawmill workers to further justify JGR to the public so here’s an Employment description of the typical worker;
~Typically, though, ski area workers fall into three categories:
-Students
The bulk of ski jobs are ideal for students because most resort areas don’t require a lengthy commitment. Although the busy ski season is winter when students are typically in school, it’s possible for a student to arrange to take winter quarter off school and make up the time during summer. Furthermore, many ski resort employers don’t require extensive experience or education for seasonal hires.
-Ski Bums
The seasonal, temporary nature of many ski area positions makes them especially suited to those who are willing to do what it takes to ski as much as possible.
From here; http://www.jobmonkey.com/ski/
~ Since these McJobs aren’t full time permanent positions usually with no benefits and no future, it creates additional demand on our society’s Social safety net at the same time as every level of our governments have been slashing funding to it, escalating these costs. If your loosing your young to other areas it’s usually because they see no future where they currently live, Can’t afford housing, only McJobs available, can’t afford to have children. Even further education appears to be a dead end as described in this story; http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/style/so-you-thought-generation-x-was-angry/article1457660/ with the sub title “My generation and those younger than us have been robbed of our rightful inheritance” ~Endangered.
Again and again Endangered, you obviously don’t understand the job market here in the area of the Columbia Valley.
I will say it one more time and the last,
In the ski industry here in the Columbia’s, in the cleaning industry here in the Columbia’s, there is no minimum wage.
Get it understand it and you can then get off your soap box of litineys of woe to me.
If you took the time to look into the criteria of foriegn workers in Canada, you would understand something beyond your woe is me and thee and everyone else.
There are criteria set up by the Government of Canada, WCB, Labour Standards and and and.
If you know of something that is amiss, then give me some specifics and I wiil be more than glad to report those abuses to the proper authorities.
Until such time, please lay off the woe is the world chest thumping.
To make it easier for you, by all means call me on my cell phone;
250 342 1524, and I will give you my personal e mail address, you can then spell out your tale of society’s woes as it relates to the Foreign workers program and I as President of the BC Liberals here in the Columbia Valley / Revelstoke area will look into those allegations.
Daviid R Pacey
Great point Pacey,
The next point that Endangered is missing is the opportunities that are realized by those that choose to take them. For example, a young guy who wanted a bit of the ‘lifestyle’ went to a job fair in Ontario and boarded a bus to get his “McJob” he lived in the staff ecom; over priced and over crowded, he didn’t make much money, but bagged enough riding to make a normal city kid’s head spin. He saw a need at Pano that couldn’t be filled by the house keeping department so he started his own cleaning company. About 3 or 4 years later he still enjoys the lifestyle, but now he does quite well for himself and employs a number of other young folks.
Another story worth mentioning is that of another young ’ski bum’ who also chose to answer the call of the dreaded “McJob” and as Endangered and others would have us believe would be stuck forever in the mire of worthlessness. He worked with the ski patrol for many years and gained invaluable experience in mountain operations. These skills could not be taught, only learned within the brutal confines of his “McJob.” He endured the torturous life, eventually it was realized that, despite the thoughts of some, his experience was indeed valuable. This young ski patroller went on to partner with Joe Hussain at the helm of one of the most successful resort empires on the planet; the old Intrawest. At the height of their success, Intrawest was sold to the doomed company that owns it now and Hugh Smythe, the lowly ski patroller retired a very happy and very successful man. These are 2 of literarily thousands of success stories that ALL have the same beginning; “once upon a time, I was forced to work in the salt mines for a glass of water and a bowl of rice per day…”
As an aside McDonald’s to whom endangered and others offensively use as an example of dread and doom has given work experience and opportunities to literally millions and millions of young people; more than any other employer in the world. I am a proud alumnus of the McDonald’s crew; at 13, flipping burgers for $3.85/hr gave me a sense of belonging, independence and invaluable work experience that I still use in my life today. I am grateful that I had this valuable opportunity.
Widen your scope Endangered! If you can’t or won’t look at the big picture and see the huge opportunities that come out of small entry level positions, you’ll never ‘get it.’ Take experience, add experience and stir…
Unfortunately the problems appear systemic and are based upon greed. As the economist Galbraith said; “In the Galbraith model of a speculative cycle, good times spawn the excess and corruption that eventually bring them to an end.” Link here;
http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/15/return-of-the-bezzle/
Supply side economics, AKA, Horse and sparrow Economics
VooDoo Economics/ Reganonmics, Thatcherism, Trickle Down Economics (no such thing, link here to most of these here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics) As President Obama recently said to the Republicans, whom are Supply side supporters “You can’t constantly cut taxes at the same time as increasing spending, It just doesn’t work” The only way it works is to start borrowing money and that creates huge deficits. Regressive taxation policies creates prosperity for the few on the backs of the poor. Simply look around at BC’s having the highest Child (Family) poverty in Canada for 6 years, CPP claims that Female Senior’s poverty is even higher across Canada at about one in six so if you want something to do simply quit ignoring these. Are not both of these OUR FUTURE?~Endangered
Endangered,
I have tried to carry on a civil debate on this subject, but it is futile! Your belligerence, self righteousness and arrogance has led me to only one conclusion, you’re either stupid or ignorant. One thing is certain, you are so damn bull headed you are incapable of carrying on a educated debate which flows back and forth on a point/counter point basis. Your arguments, although very well backed up by other peoples’ articles in socialist periodicals, are thin, superficial and cannot be backed up at all by your previous or future premisses. Its kind of like arguing like a 4 year old; all be it a very intelligent 4 year old, but a 4 year old just the same.
So just so I’m straight on you line thinking; if one takes a job based on lifestyle and opportunities and not on the size of the pay cheque which seems to be vitally important to you, we are simply providing McJobs which is done at the peril of society as a whole. If one takes the experience gained from these entry level jobs and becomes successful, it is done also at the peril of society under the horrible banner of “greed.” At what point on the journey through the work force are we supposed to start hating a person? You’ll have to excuse me if I’m a bit confused at you circular debate??
As for your post bellow, I guess its all over!! All hope is gone?? I disrespectfully disagree. When there is a healthy economic driver in place; a well planned economy creates sustainability and vitality. Our economic driver is tourism, more specifically tourism as it relates to outdoor, active recreation, sorry you can’t come to terms with this Endangered, but JGR will happen and it will contribute to our Valley’s healthy, sustainable economic future.
See ya on the slopes or under your bed hiding from the lights of a bright future … it’s your choice!
The economic opportunities that were available to the baby boomer generation because of the demographic situation will not be available to the next generations. Globalization has exported those to other countries with lower wage costs. Globalization has been described as the race to the bottom as wages stagnate or decline , full time jobs are exported more part time/ contract McJobs are created. Henry ford created huge societal wealth by lowering the cost of automoblies to the price where AVERAGE people could afford them AND by paying his employees enough so they to could buy his product. ~Endangered.
“… the price where AVERAGE people could afford them AND by paying his employees enough so they to could buy his product….” ?? Interesting view on things Endangered. First off the “AVERAGE” wage earner can afford to ski if he/she chooses an active outdoor lifestyle. A family pass at Pano for unlimited skiing is still south of $2,000, completely in line or cheaper with any other comparable family activity. The AVERAGE family CAN afford this…that’s one point for Ford, one for the McSki industry…tie game!
AND if you think Ford was noble for paying his employees enough to be able to afford his product, I guess McEmployers in the McSki industry must be SUPER noble because McStaff at the McSki resort are given the McProduct for the low, low everyday price of FREE!! Not only that, they are also granted reciprocal privileges at other McSki hills all over Canada. The closest thing that is even offered for non-McSki staff is the Canada-West pass that is offered to FIS ski racers and coaches. McSki hill workers are also offered rides on luxurious motor coaches to these other resorts for about $20!! That’s one more point for McSki resorts, zero for Ford….and the game ends 2-1 for the McSki industry…GAME>>>SET >>>MATCH…. we win…again! I also said “Mc” more than you so I win that one too! lol …
Ford employees could actually afford to buy their own homes, own a car, have a family, only one parent needed to work and didn’t require subsides to live. ~Endangered
How’s the ol’ auto industry doing now?? Why? Uh…labour cost! Slam dunk..I still win!
To add…JGR will be a much better work environment for a young outdoor enthusiast than the inside of a car manufacturing plant…and think of all the valuable experience (life and work) that will be gained. I win…AGAIN!! I’m actually feeling a bit un-sportsman-like, but in the case of a tie in the entire match the adjudication will go to total points for and against so I’m gonna take the easy points!
Good Morning Endangered.
We still not have seen nor heard from you here on my cell number about the dire predicitons you have been speaking about regarding foreign workers and their supposed abuse.
I have offered to help you do something constructive about this supposed danger to society you speak about but still you have not called my cell number with any thing to substantiate anything you have alleged.
So again, if you have any thing factual about your assertion of abuse in the job market for workers called ” foreign “, here is my cell number again – 250 342 1524.
I told you that as BC LIberal President, in the Columbia River Revelstoke areas, that if you had anything factual rather than alarmist, I would be more than pleased to check into your concerns and if necessary, have the proper authorities deal with the problems.
I have yet to hear from you.
David R Pacey
BC LIberal President
Columbia River Revelstoke
You may actually want to read the resort development guidelines here;
http://www.tca.gov.bc.ca/resort_development/docs/asr/Chapter_2-Mountain_Resorts_Amended_Aug_25_2009.pdf
On Employee housing. II.5.16 Employee / Resident Restricted Housing
A resort’s employees – the local residents – are key to the character and quality of experience offered to its visitors. The “locals” are the lifeblood of the resort community, and as such, function as ambassadors for the experience. It is in the best interest of
the resort to ensure that the employees live close and have access to the activities and services offered. This engagement becomes a challenge as the resort becomes more successful. Over time, seasonal and full time employees typically are less able to compete with the financial resources of investors and second homeowners finding it increasingly difficult to live within or near the resort. Unchecked, the resort becomes less and less affordable. Employees, critical to the provision of all resort services (not just the operation of the resort) begin to move further away. Ultimately, this compromises the vibrancy and economic vitality of the resort. This laisse-faire approach of letting employees find their own way – encouraging (or providing them no other option) to live outside the resort area – will create a potentially divisive environment. Such competing needs negatively affect service levels, as unsatisfied and unfulfilled employees often do not meet the service expectations demanded by the resort’s guests. In order to avoid “industrial tourism” – and to move towards ensuring a sustainable and successful resort, employees / residents must have the ability to live and play where they work. The sense of a local community ensures an authentic character of the place as well as enhanced four-season vitality for local businesses. Local discounts for amenities and affordable housing are key success strategies.” ~So it would appear you are creating the unsustainable INDUSTRIAL TOURISM rather than true world class resorts in BC. ~Endangered.
Also from the same guidelines;
” NOTE: While many of the world’s leading mountain resorts continue to struggle with the issue of employee housing, BC has been singularly proactive in producing new initiatives to deal with this matter. But this is not the time for either developers or government representatives to get complacent. As part of a successful 21st century mountain resort plan, the proper mechanisms must be put in place early to develop and sustain housing dedicated for employee use.”
~Endangered.
Good Afternoon Endangered
We still not have seen nor heard from you here on my cell number about the dire predictions you have been speaking about regarding foreign workers and their supposed abuse.
Another week has gone by ( 2 1/2 now ) and you still have done nothing but flap your fingers on the key board without substantiating anything you have stated on this and other topics.
I have offered to help you do something constructive about this supposed danger to society you speak about but still you have not called my cell number with any thing to substantiate anything you have alleged.
So again, if you have any thing factual about your assertion of abuse in the job market for workers called ” foreign “, here is my cell number again – 250 342 1524.
I told you that as BC LIberal President, in the Columbia River Revelstoke areas, that if you had anything factual rather than alarmist, I would be more than pleased to check into your concerns and if necessary, have the proper authorities deal with the problems.
I have yet to hear from you.
David R Pacey
BC LIberal President
Columbia River Revelstoke
Sorry I wasn’t able to include the link to the RESORT DEVELOPMENT GUIDELINES above in my previous post but here it is;
http://www.tca.gov.bc.ca/resort_development/rules/guidelines.htm
That the BC Liberal Government created for: the Tourism and Resort Development Division, Ministry of Tourism, Sport and the Arts in 2006 with the help of Oberto Oberti, President, Pheidias Project Management Corporation. The section on Employee housing is in this PDF; http://www.tca.gov.bc.ca/resort_development/docs/asr/Chapter_2-Mountain_Resorts_Amended_Aug_25_2009.pdf Pg 42 of the document or pg 50 of the pdf. They explain why NOT providing Employee housing at the resort and as soon as possible will affect a RESORT’S long term viability. My concerns are that the issues have already been through all the necessary channels but are still not being properly addressed. ~Endangered.